Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you stopped answering the telephone calls to go into Captain Fritz’ office, were you aware that you were going in there for the purpose of getting ready to move Oswald out? Mr. GRAVES. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you become aware of that? Mr. GRAVES. We were told that we were going to move him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Who told you that? Mr. GRAVES. Captain Fritz. Mr. GRIFFIN. He told you? Mr. GRAVES. Yes; I don’t know whether he walked out and told me. You know, in the process, the door was opened and he talked to some of us at the door and so forth. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, prior to the time that you actually went out there in the hallway with Oswald, did you have any information as to whether the people who were members of the press were aware that Oswald was about to be brought out? Mr. GRAVES. I--it was my understanding they knew that he was to be transferred at 10 o’clock. Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I mean---- Mr. GRAVES. Well, no, no; we--if you mean if we--told them when we were leaving with him, we didn’t do that. We just walked out with him. Mr. GRIFFIN. But what about a sharp newsman who was keeping his eyes and ears open? Could he see through the door? Could he see the activity? Mr. GRAVES. Could he see the preparation---- Mr. GRIFFIN. For bringing out---- Mr. GRAVES. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Could one see Oswald putting on his sweater, for example? Mr. GRAVES. Maybe not that, but he could have seen us pass it over to him. I believe those blinds were open there on--coming out to the secretary’s office there. I believe they were. I’m not sure about that, but if they were open they could have seen from the front door standing at the hallway at an angle. They could have seen that sweater or clothes changing hands. I don’t believe where Oswald was standing he could see him from that angle, but I--like I said, a good, sharp newsman knowing the activity, he could see and naturally know that something was fixing to happen. Mr. GRIFFIN. When you arrived at the elevators on the third floor, was the elevator there waiting for you? Mr. GRAVES. I think it was waiting right there for us. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, which elevator did you come down in? Mr. GRAVES. It is called the inside jail elevator, which is used only for the transfer of prisoners from one floor to the other and basement. Mr. GRIFFIN. And who went into the elevator with you? Mr. GRAVES. Well, it was Leavelle, Montgomery, Swain, and Captain Fritz and myself and, of course, Oswald. Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was Chief Curry at that time? Mr. GRAVES. I don’t know. He left just before we did and I don’t know where he went. Mr. GRIFFIN. How long would you estimate Chief Curry left before you people walked out of the homicide bureau with Oswald?