Mr. TURNER. He was moving at that time but this man looks like Ruby, but he seemed to be heavier than I see him now. I don’t know whether it is an allusion, being in a dark place---- Mr. HUBERT. Did you see a man come out from the crowd and shoot Oswald? Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Was that man the same man that you have---- Mr. TURNER. It was this same man. Mr. HUBERT. That you have marked as “10”? Mr. TURNER. As “10”. It was the same man, and came out and shot him from “10”. Mr. HUBERT. So, that if it were Jack Ruby who shot Oswald, it was Jack Ruby at place number “10”? Mr. TURNER. That’s right. Right. Right. Mr. HUBERT. How long before the shooting was it that you saw a man in position number “10” there in a circle on the ramp? Mr. TURNER. It was not more than 15 to 30 seconds. It was---- Mr. HUBERT. Did you keep your eye on the man, this man? Mr. TURNER. No; I had just glanced up there, and I had come back--my eye on our reporter, Tom Pettit, and also the door, which is behind Tom Pettit, which I will mark right now as “11”, where Oswald made his exit. Mr. HUBERT. Now, when was the next time you saw the man whom you have previously identified as number “10” and at what position was he then? Mr. TURNER. The next time I saw him he walked up to Position “12”, which was almost in line with our man, Pettit, which is number “8”, here. Mr. HUBERT. Now, you saw him then? Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Was he at the front row of those people? Mr. TURNER. Let me mark two more positions here, sir. A policeman was over here to his right, I think, which we’ll mark, “13”, and then there was a reporter, or a man dressed in a suit, I’ll call him the reporter at “14”. Mr. HUBERT. All right, and my point is, that when you next saw the man who is now identified as Jack Ruby, and therefore I shall refer to him as Jack Ruby from now on out, he was at a position marked as number “12”? Mr. TURNER. Right. Mr. HUBERT. Was he standing still there, or moving? Mr. TURNER. There was only a matter of 4 seconds, or 5 seconds, when he arrived there that--until Oswald reached the point where he was assassinated. Mr. HUBERT. You saw Ruby arrive at the front? Mr. TURNER. That’s right. He walked up to--see, this is all in line, from our camera position to our--there were--they were just a little back of the side light from our camera to our newscaster---- Mr. HUBERT. That’s number “8”? Mr. TURNER. That’s right. Mr. HUBERT. But you are willing to say that he was standing at the front row of the group of people congregated there for possibly 5 seconds before he moved forward to shoot Oswald? Mr. TURNER. That’s right, that’s right. Mr. HUBERT. And you judge that the time that you saw him standing still, 5 seconds before this shooting of Oswald, was approximately 15 to 20 seconds after you first saw him in that position “10”?