Mr. TURNER. I am vague about that time. Ten seconds or 20 seconds. I am very vague. I mean, but I know he was only there a short time, because I saw--we were on guard to try to move the newsmen out of our way, push them out of the way in front of the camera, and you kind of thrash around at the movement of them to keep on your shot, and that is how I come to notice another man up there. These three men are the only ones that I remember on that side except our man Pettit. There could have been more. There was some CBS cameramen over in this locality, but they had already been there, and that wasn’t in my mind at all, the ones that were actually stationed there. It was the movement of people at that time that made you look at it. Mr. HUBERT. All right, let’s get a little bit more about this period for Jack Ruby to move from the position you have marked “10”, to the position you have marked “12”, when he was standing in the front line. Did he have to go through any great mass of people? Mr. TURNER. No, not to my knowledge, because I didn’t see a great number of men up in there. Mr. HUBERT. Did he have to push, or shoulder his way up there? Mr. TURNER. No. Mr. HUBERT. He could just walk up and get into that position? Mr. TURNER. That’s right. There was some more men out there in this area, but I can’t connect it at this point. Mr. HUBERT. What I want to get at, from what you tell me the group was not such that he would have to bulldoze his way through? Mr. TURNER. No; he just flat walked up. Mr. HUBERT. Just once, again for the record. There can be no doubt in your mind but the man now identified as Jack Ruby is the man you saw at position “10”? Mr. TURNER. Correct. Mr. HUBERT. All right; now, during our interview, immediately preceding the commencement of this deposition you mentioned another person that you had seen around the court building on several occasions, and I should like now--in other words, tell what you know about this person when you first saw him, now, at the numerous occasions on which you saw him until the last time that you saw him?