Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Leave me tell you something now so you people understand. Ira Kolitz comes from one of the finest families in Chicago. His father was a banker on the west side. But living on the west side you are next door--your next-door neighbor might be a hoodlum, you don’t know. Maybe Ira Kolitz went to school with Jack, it could have been. Maybe they hung around the same poolroom together. I was in the Army with Ira. How much Jack hung around with Ira, I don’t know. I know Ira had a couple of taverns downtown; that I did know. Whether a tavern owner is a hoodlum that is another category, that I don’t know. Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Marty Gimpel? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. He died; poor Marty. Marty was a nice guy; worked for the post office for many years, saved up a nice piece of change, went down to Dallas, Tex.; they tried to promote homes, build homes, out of log cabins. They built one, they sold it and that was the end of that deal as far as I know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Marty friendly with Jack during the thirties? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know. I imagine; yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first become aware that Marty was---- Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t remember. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know Marty in Chicago? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I knew of him. Probably met him once or twice at the house. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know when he went to Texas? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No. Leave me tell you about Dallas, Tex. I mean anybody that Jack knew when Jack came up to Chicago maybe once every 4 or 5 years. “Come down to Dallas, I have got a proposition for you.” “Come down to Dallas, I have a proposition for you.” Everybody he wanted to come down that he wanted to have a friend down there, that was the kind of a guy he was, or else have a place for him to stay, he probably would have a job for them, or if a proposition come up that this fellow could handle Jack would fix him up for it. That was the kind of guy Jack was; you never go hungry with Jack. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a fellow in Chicago named Frank Howard? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No; never heard the name. Mr. GRIFFIN. Jack Howard? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. The musicman? Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that who he is? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know, that is the only Jack Howard that I remember. Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us how you knew him? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I can’t tell you nothing. I don’t know him that well; no. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack know him? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember Jack being in the music business? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No; I don’t. Mr. GRIFFIN. Selling sheet music or anything like that? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. That is the guy that Jack counted sheet music; that is the guy. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your brother Jack sell sheet music? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a man named Irwin Berke? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Never heard of him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Or Sam Chazin? Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Never heard of him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a fellow by the name of Paul Labriolla?