"I'd rather see a woman suffer than a man and a man rather than a child and a child rather than an animal. Animals are bewildered and don't understand. They have nothing to help them. They don't understand their sufferings." "You rate men lower than women in power to endure pain." "They get more practice." "You're right there." "They're less sensitive." "That's debateable, Wayneflete." "Women appear to be callous over the sufferings of other women and to make a fuss over men. It's because sick men are more helpless and pitiful. Women _appear_ to be. But the sun _appears_ to go round the earth." "I doubt if ever there'll come a time when we'll have live humanity in our experimental laboratories." "Science has got to go ahead anyway." "But if it goes ahead by forcing; sensitive creatures; with ... sensitive nervous systems, to bear fear and pain ... we shall lose more morally than we shall gain scientifically even if we gain scientifically and we don't because nearly everyone is _ill_." "You consider knahludg can be bought at too high a price." "Well; look at the continental luminaries; where there are no restrictions; they don't even care about their patients, only diseases interest them, and in general, not only in science, they don't really know anything, the Germans and the French, you have only to look at them. They are brutal." "That's a large statement. If you'll pardon me I should say there's a certain amount of insular prejudice in that." "I have not a scrap of insular prejudice. I like foreigners. They are more intelligent than Englishmen. But there's something they don't know that makes them all alike. I once heard a wealthy old Jew say that he'd go to Germany for diagnosis and to England for treatment, and he'd had operations and illnesses all over the world. That expresses it." "You infer that the English have more humanity." "They don't regard the patient as a case in the way continentals do." "Well I guess when we're sick we all like to go home." "You mean the Jew had no home. But he chose the English to go home to when he was ill." "That's true in more senses than one. This country's been a home for the Jews right away back." "It's a great country. That's sure." "Science has got to go away ahead. If you're going to be humanitarians over here you must leave continental science out of your scheme. So long as you carry out their results you can't honestly cry down their methods." "You must cry down their methods if you don't approve of them." "You can't put back. You can't prevent association between the different lands; especially in matters of science." "What _I'm_ saying. You've got to accept the goods, even supposing your particular constitution of mind inclines you to bulleave them ill-gotten." "It's a case of good coming out of evil." "That's Jesuitical, the end justifying the means. I don't believe that. Why should science go ahead so fast? Where's the hurry as you say in Canada?"