It has been said above that the same importance did not attach, from a financing standpoint, to the taking of stock by machinery manufacturers as applied in the case of commission houses. The reason for this is that, generally speaking, the machinery manufacturers have not held their shares for long, while the commission firms have usually been stockholders over a period of years, their holdings sometimes diminishing and sometimes decreasing, but their influence in the affairs of the mills being always felt. A banker's experience was that generally machinery manufacturers taking stock in a mill sold it almost immediately at a discount; it is not reasonable to suppose that a machinery manufacturer would wish to take stock; he did it in order to sell his machinery.[315] An interesting explanation of the statement that the machinery manufacturers were heavier stockholders in the Southern mills than the commission houses is implied in a remark made by Mr. Thackston, of Greenville, a stock broker already quoted; the machinery men must get their profits quickly; these they received partly in the cash payment, two-thirds of the price of the machinery; their shares may have been numerous for either or both of two reasons--they may have been forced to take considerable stock in consequence of making the largest possible sale of machinery, which in turn was made necessary if they were to get a profit out of the proportion of the price paid in cash, or knowing that they must look forward to a quick sale at discount, they figured this into their price to the mill man, and counted upon deriving a profit from as large a number of shares as they could get in payment.[316] The commission men, on the other hand, must expect to get their returns slowly,[317] either through dividends as shareholders, or through profits from the handling of the product of the plant, or by both of these means; in the former case, the necessity of their holding their shares is obvious; in the latter case, to have a voice in the affairs of the mill, particularly in the annual elections and in instances where increased profits from commissions must come through extension of output, active connection with the affairs of the mill must be maintained.[318] The machinery men have in a few cases held the stock they have taken in a mill.[319] An instance of this is seen in the fact that D. A. Tompkins, until a few years ago, the representative in Charlotte, North Carolina, of many Northern machinery manufactures, was obliged to have sold two or three mills to which he had supplied machinery and taken payment partly in stock; ordinarily the machinery manufacturers would not stay in long enough for the first flush of establishment to dwindle to failure, taking away all possibility of sale with minimum discount losses.[320]