2211. What was the date of that condition which required vessels of 1,600 tons and 500-horse power?--It was a proposal made originally by the Peninsular and Oriental Company, early in the year. I believe it was accepted about the middle of July, 1841; but I was not in this country at the time. 2212. From that time to the present, the “India” was excluded from the benefit of the arrangement?--She was excluded in this way---- 2213. Was she of the requisite horse power?--I was going to state how it was proved that she was not. 2214. That arrangement was made in the year 1841?--Yes; the arrangement was made by the Court of Directors in July 1841. 2215. Then the “India” was from that time excluded from the benefit of the arrangement?--Under the clause requiring 500-horse power, the “India” was excluded; but the Peninsular and Oriental Company proposed to purchase her, and after a good deal of squabbling they offered us £23,000---- 2216. We do not want to go into that matter; but I understood you to say that by the original conditions imposed by the East India Company, in 1841, the steamer “India” was excluded from the benefit of the arrangement?--She was excluded, but the Peninsular and Oriental Company asked them to accept her. 2217. In your former examination, in answer to question 1835, you stated, “The 500-horse power was put in purposely to exclude all but the Peninsular Company’s vessels.” Will you state upon what grounds you attribute to the Admiralty, in 1844, a condition which appears to have been in force against you, by the orders of the East India Company, as early as 1841?--I had intended to commence the examination by referring to my statement with respect to that very case. It is so put here that I really cannot understand it myself, and I must request to be allowed to make the explanation of horse power; if you will allow me to make the explanation of what I mean by horse power, I shall be able to make my answers intelligible. 2218. Are you a person of experience in nautical matters?--I profess to know all that a man who has devoted his life to the subject can know of the building and working of ships. 2219. And not only sailing ships, but steam vessels?--Yes. 2220. Are there two meanings to the term “horse power!”--No; “horse power” has no meaning at all; if you will allow me to give an explanation I can state what it is. 2221. Before you give your explanation, allow me to ask this question, whether you mean to say that the term “horse power” has no meaning?--It has no meaning as to the capacity of ships for carrying the mails; that I assert. 2222. Then when the East India Company, in 1841, put in a clause that no vessel employed in carrying the mails should be less than 500-horse power, they put in a clause which had no meaning at all?--The East India Company never put in the clause at all; it was put in by the Peninsular and Oriental Company, with the very object of excluding us.