_A._ _That is true_; I trust them not. _R._ Wouldst thou know thy servant, whom we were just now speaking of, with the outer senses, or with the inner? _A._ I know him now as well as I can know him with the external senses; but I should like to know his mind with my mind; then I should know what _was his loyalty toward me_. [Sidenote: 19.3--20.17] _R._ Can one know otherwise _than with the mind_? _A._ _It doth_ not _seem to me that I can know it_ as I would. _R._ Dost thou, then, not know thy servant? _A._ How can I know him, seeing I am not certain that I know myself? It is said in the law that one shall love his neighbor even as himself. How then do I know in what way I should love him, if I do not know whether I love myself? Nor do I know how he loveth me; yet I know that it is the same with him in regard to me. _R._ If thou with the inner sense wouldst know God, why pointest thou me to the outer senses, as if thou wouldst see Him bodily, just as thou formerly saidst thou sawest the moon? I know not therefore how thou teachest it to me, nor can I teach it to any one, by the outer senses. But tell me whether it seemeth enough for thee to know God as Plato and Plotinus knew him? _A._ I dare not say that it would seem to me enough, because I know not whether it seemed to them enough in regard to that which they knew. I know not whether it seemed to them that they needed to know more of Him, but even so they formerly seemed to me.[5] When I prayed, methought I did not so fully understand that which I besought as I would. But I still could not forbear to speak about it, just as it seemed to me that I needed, and just as I supposed it was. [5] Doubtful rendering of and _swā-swā mē ēr pūhton_. _R._ _Methinks now it seemeth to thee that_ it is one thing _to know, and quite another only to suppose_. _A._ _Yea, so methinks; therefore I would now that thou tell me what difference there is between these, or what one certainly knoweth._ _R._ _Knowest thou that thou didst learn the science which we call geometry? In that science thou learnedst on a ball, or an apple, or a painted egg, that thou mightest by the painting understand the motion of the heavens and the course of the stars. Knowest thou that thou didst learn in the same science about a line drawn along the middle of the ball? Knowest thou what was there taught thee about the positions of the twelve stars and the path of the sun?_ [Sidenote: 20.17--22.10] _A._ Yea; I know well enough what the line signifieth. _R._ _Now that thou sayest thou doubtest this no whit_, dost thou not fear the Academicians, _those philosophers who said that there was never anything certain beyond a doubt_?