JUDGE SEBRING: Witness, this question of the necessity for an experiment, is it your view that it is for the state to determine the extreme necessity for such an experiment and that thereafter those who serve the state are to be bound by that procedure? I think you can answer that “yes” or “no”. DEFENDANT KARL BRANDT: This trial shows that it will be the task of the state under all circumstances basically to clarify this question for the future. Q. Witness, as I understood your statements a moment ago, they were that the physician, having once become the soldier, thereafter must subordinate such medical-ethical views as he may have when they are in conflict with a military order from higher authority, is that true? A. I didn’t want to express it in that form. I did not mean to say that the physician, the moment he becomes a medical officer, should change his basic attitude as a physician. Such an order can in the very same way be addressed to a physician who is not a soldier. I was referring to the entire situation as it prevailed with us in Germany during the time of an authoritarian leadership. This authoritarian leadership interfered with the personality and the personal feelings of the human being. The moment an individuality is absorbed into the concept of a collective body, every demand which is put to that individuality has to be absorbed into the concept of a collective system. Therefore, the demands of society are placed above every individual human being as an entity, and this entity, the human being, is completely used in the interests of that society. The difficult thing, and something which is hard to understand basically, is that during our entire period, and Dr. Leibbrandt referred to that, everything was done in the interests of humanity so that the individual person had no meaning whatsoever, and the farther the war progressed, the stronger did this principal thought appear. This was designated in the end as “total war,” and in accordance with that, the leaders of the state gave orders quite generally and demanded that orders be carried out. It was very tragic for a number of persons, not only within the framework of these experiments, but also in other situations that they had to work under such orders. Without considering the entire situation as it prevailed in Germany, one cannot understand the question of these particular experiments at all. * * * * * EXTRACTS FROM THE TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS DR. FRIEDRICH HIELSCHER[7] _DIRECT EXAMINATION_ DR. WEISGERBER: Witness, your name is Friedrich Hielscher? WITNESS HIELSCHER: Friedrich Hielscher. Q. You were born on 31 May 1902 in Plauen, and you are now living in Marburg, that is right? A. Yes. Q. What is your profession? A. I am a scholar. Q. And since when have you taken an active part in politics? A. Since 1927. Q. Did you belong to a definite political ideology?