A. No. I had a group of students to whom I expounded my historical and philosophical theories and ideas. Q. How did it happen that you became an opponent of the NSDAP so early? A. From the information available to me I knew the personal inferiority of the National Socialist leaders. I could observe that they were constantly lying and that what they really wanted was undesirable. Q. Did you believe, as early as 1928, that the NSDAP would come to power? A. No, not in 1928. In 1930, after the first election battle at which the Party was victorious, I considered it possible. In 1931 I considered it probable. In 1932 I felt that it was certain. Q. Did you join any definite political party with the intention of combating the NSDAP? A. No. I considered it impossible for any of the 33 German parties, with their bureaucratic methods, to be able to prevent a fascist dictatorship, or if it had come into existence, to overthrow it. Q. What methods did you think were the right ones? A. The fascist dictatorship is a mass machine in a technical age. Therefore it seemed to us to be out of the question, when confronting such a mass body, to act openly. It seemed impossible to carry out propaganda publicly. We were convinced that the only thing possible was to form very small cadres which would not be recognizable to an outsider and which at the proper time could be employed for a coup d’etat. Q. Then that was more or less the method of the Trojan Horse? A. Yes. Q. Were you, in your ideas and in your efforts to combat this movement alone or did you have associates? A. First, a selected group of my students were willing to collaborate in this illegal work; second, I knew quite a number of personages of various political backgrounds with whom I agreed that this regime would not last. Q. That was before 1933? A. That was around 1933—1932-33. Q. Now came the 30th of January 1933, the so-called seizure of power, and now your real work began. How and when did you apply your method of the Trojan Horse? A. This group of my students, who were willing to collaborate, I made into an illegal organization, with dues, secrecy, and other necessary conditions, and I appointed people who were willing and suitable to get into important Party positions. Q. When and how did you meet the defendant Wolfram Sievers? A. As far as I can recall, I met Sievers about 1929, on one of my historical-philosophical lecture trips. He was a Boy Scout at that time. He spoke up during the discussion and we took a liking to each other. Q. Did Sievers show at that time that he was opposed to the NSDAP? A. That was a matter of course with the people with whom I had anything to do at all. Q. And did you consider him suitable to work in your circle? A. Yes. Q. In 1929 Sievers joined the NSDAP. Was that done with your knowledge? A. Yes.