Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me go back one bit here. You stated that you came down. This one time you are talking about was an episode where you went through the armored car, and this would have been your third trip downstairs? Chief BATCHELOR. And my last one. Mr. GRIFFIN. And your last one. Now the first trip that you came down the stairs was when you saw these reserve officers over by the elevators? Chief BATCHELOR. Actually, that was the second trip down, I believe. Mr. GRIFFIN. That would have been about what time? Chief BATCHELOR. Oh, probably 10 or 10:15, somewhere along in there. Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. So that the trip that we have been referring to in the past, the 10:45 trip, is really most clearly distinguished by the---- Chief BATCHELOR. I may be a little mixed up on my time, but the last trip, the trip we are talking about when we searched the armored car and put that in place, that was fairly close to the movement of the prisoner, and I would say somewhere around 10:45 to 11 o'clock. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now that happened somewhere around 11:20? Chief BATCHELOR. About 10:45. Mr. GRIFFIN. But you never went back upstairs, from the time that you moved your automobile up onto Commerce Street and the time that you searched the armored car? Chief BATCHELOR. No; Chief Stevenson did, but I didn't. Mr. GRIFFIN. How long would you say you were downstairs from the time that you walked down and moved your car out on the street and Oswald arrived? Chief BATCHELOR. Possibly 30 minutes or 35. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now after you finished examining the armored car and you talked with Chief Stevenson, did you get a chance to look at the placement of the news personnel, the news media people in the basement? Chief BATCHELOR. Shortly before he came down, yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now looking toward the Main Street ramp, how many rows deep, if there was more than one row at all, were the policemen who were blocking the Main Street ramp? Chief BATCHELOR. How many rows deep were the policemen? Mr. GRIFFIN. I'm sorry, the news people, if you understand what I mean? Chief BATCHELOR. There was about, as I remember it, about two deep along there. Some places there might have been a third man behind, but most about two deep. Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you come here and mark along the Main Street ramp about how deep these people were? Chief BATCHELOR. [Marking.] There weren't many along there because there were cameras there. Mr. GRIFFIN. How many people would you estimate were in that area there? Chief BATCHELOR. Oh, there couldn't have been too many in that particular area there. It is only 15 feet wide, maybe 20 or 25 in there, maybe 30. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, just before Oswald was brought down, where were the rest of the news people placed? Chief BATCHELOR. They were along here. Mr. GRIFFIN. That is blocking the garage entrance? Chief BATCHELOR. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. About how many people would you say were in that area?